Author Topic: Archive 37  (Read 3067 times)

Richard

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Archive 37
« on: April 30, 2012, 04:08:36 pm »
Archive 37

maxmmm



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:41 am    Post subject: Cold machine evaporator tubing
 

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I have a new cold machine with a large vertical evaporator. I'm getting ready to thread the tubing through the box wall. There is a small tube ( 1 mm) wrapped around a larger tube (4 mm). The small tube then connects to a larger tube (6mm) which is soldered to the other tube. The larger (6mm) tube reduces down to about 3 mm after about 1 1/2 inches. My question is: for best efficiency what should be inside the freezer box and what should be outside the box. The run to the compressor is very short so most of the tubing will be coiled outside of the box . Are there any issues that I should be aware of in taking care of this excess tubing. Thank-you. Max

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kollmann
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject:
 

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The extra tubing is coiled outside the box near the compressor. There is also a length of insulation over the tubing that belongs just outside the refrigerator box.

The tubing can be wrapped together in a 10 to 12 inch coil.

The only thing that needs special care are the line connections. Adler Barbour's pre-chraged current connector fittings are self piercing. To prevent refrigerant loss they must be in a straight line before attempting the connection. When the fittings are lined up correctly the o ring will hold back refrigerant while the fitting is tightened. Once the connector is tight a metal seal will hold back the refrigerant for the life of system.

Be sure to follow the manufacturers installation guide.
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billandbeaufort



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Florida, USA    Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Adler- Barbour with a BD35F comp.? or another brand?
 

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Mr. Kollman, I have a very small box with very good insulation (3 cu. ft. - R,30) I had wanted to use an Adler-Barbour CU-100 cond/comp. with a VD-150 vertical evap. but a BD35F comp/cond. would be better sized for this installation. If I could get someone to install a BD35 comp./cond. in this unit would it work? The dealer I am using wants me to buy a Waeco CU-85 comp/cond. with a VD-09 evap. but they say I wont be able to mount it to use vertical ice trays! I can't understand why not. Perhaps I'm dealing with the wrong refrigeration "professionals"? What do you think my best option would be? Thanks, Bill

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kollmann
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: BD50 or BD35
 

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Because you boat is in Florida the Adler Barbour CU100 and VD150 is a good choice as long as the resistor at the thermostat is removed. When the speed resistor is removed the compressor will slow down from 2500 to 2000 rpm. There is a test boat in my 12 volt book of a box comparison much like yours, CU100 Condensing unit and VD150 evaporator. Test conditions 82 degree seawater and 85 degree air temp. Box temperature 40.1 to 41.9 degrees for 21 hours. Total amp-hours consumed 21. Freezer Bin would have been much colder than box but was not recorded. In looking at the efficiency charts in my book with ambient air temp at 80 degree the BD35 at slow speed could reduce the daily amp-hrs further. Unless you are planning on moving boat up north or to California I would stay with the BD50 compressor

There are other companies that do offer vertical evaporator bins the size you want with BD35 compressor, but you would need to buy the ice trays from AB. Other companies, Grunert, Electricboat, Nova kool, EZ Kool.
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R.L. Kollmann
Author of DIY Refrigeration & 12-24 Volt Refrigeration

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billandbeaufort



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Florida, USA    Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:06 am    Post subject:
 

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Thank you for all your help Mr. Kollman. I am now planning to use blueboard as you suggested. I will also order the A-B unit. Even though I could reduce my amp hours with other brands I will feel better about the quality with the Coldmachine. This fall after the install I will let you know my results for your data base. Thank you, Bill



pouzts



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 5    Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Yet another Adler Barbour compressor won't start story ...
 

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Hey Folks (mainly Richard),

Specifics: Circa 1992 AD Cold Machine, second generation electronic unit which was recently repaired by Miller Marine, recently recharged with R12, cools well, glazes evaporator. Reasonable cycling times.

What's Happened: Compressor fails to start, electronic unit beeps. Sometimes the compressor will start and run for quite some time. When it attempts to cycle it will not restart. Sometimes the compressor will start but then stop in non-cyclic situation (it was not ready to cycle). Note that when the compressor would not start prior to the electronic unit being repaired I would get no beep.

What I've done: First, I have the book.

Ok, I checked the conderser fins - they're clean.
I disconnected the small auxiliary fan and condenser fan. The compressor started, then stopped mid-cycle. Failed to start again (electronic beeps). Waited some time, failed to start.

With the fans disconnected the ammeter at the power panel shows a spike to 6.8 amps. However, it seems the beep has already beeped before the amps spike so the actual spike will be less. When the unit operates it's in the 7 amp range.

Checked the compressor winding resistance. Although the pinout was a little confusing I think I got them right. My voltmeter (although brand spanking new) does not have the highest resolution so 0.1 ohm was the limit. I can't say the temperature was exactly 75F but if anything it was probably not lower than 75F.

1 -> 3 0.5
4 -> 3 0.6
2 -> 3 4.3

I can accept that this unit is shot but when looking at $1000 replacement I'd be willing to make sure it's really dying.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Peter

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kollmann
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject: BD 2.5 Drawing 7 amps
 

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An old Adler Barbour may not have a shroud around the condenser fan, there is a simple fix for this pictured in my book it is on page 42 in the 12 volt book and on page 126 in the DIY book.

If the compressor is drawing 7 amps when running, it is definitely running in a overload condition. Either there is insufficient condenser cooling, air in refrigerant, or it has too much refrigerant. If you confirm the condenser cooling airflow is good I would remove a small amount of refrigerant to lower the amp draw to 5. This reduction of refrigerant must be done in steps and when compressor is not too warm. Stop compressor and remove refrigerant for one second wait five minutes then start compressor and wait 15 minutes to check amp draw. Repeat this procedure as many times as necessary to reach 5 amps.
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R.L. Kollmann
Author of DIY Refrigeration & 12-24 Volt Refrigeration

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pouzts



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 5    Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject: Status Update
 

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Richard,

Status update.

I've tried the bleed, start, check amps procedure 6 times. In all cases the bleed is a very short depression of the stem needle on the recharge fitting, nominally one second. Audible fluid escapes.

Three things seem to happen ...

1. No restart
2. Restart with compressor cutoff in a few minutes
3. Continuous running until compressor cycles off, then no restart.

The rundown ...

Bleed 1: No restart
Bleed 2: This happened after some time (hours) Restart, ran for about 30 minutes, cutoff. Amp draw about 6+.
Bleed 3: again hours later, no restart
Bleed 4: again hours later, restart, ran for many hours to cool box, seemed to frost evaporator a bit slower than before, was drawing about 6 amps, it may have cycled on/off but I was sleeping, in the morning it was on the no start cycle
Bleep 5: after being on a no start cycle, started, ran for 6 minutes, stopped
Bleed 6: a bit after bleed 5, no restart

It seems to be a startup issue, but the in-cycle cutoff is still troubling.

I'll keep trying unless you advise otherwise. Note that I have some R12 available to recharge if necessary AND I am CFC certified to use it. Only thing I do not have are the gauges to check pressures.

Thanks

Peter

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kollmann
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:03 am    Post subject: Compressor Overload
 

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If frost is still present on 100% of evaporator and amperage is above 5 then it still has too much pressure on high side or compressor troubles. Remove more refrigerant.

It frost is now only present on part of evaporator and amperage is above five then refrigerant is contaminated or there is a mechanical probem in compressor still most unlikely.
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R.L. Kollmann
Author of DIY Refrigeration & 12-24 Volt Refrigeration

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pouzts



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 5    Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Update
 

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Richard,

Been gone for a few day, here's an update.

Four more "bleeds" and symptoms still the same (that's about 12 bleeds total). Still compressor will not start, audible beep.

Some more notes:

Checked voltage at the control module - 12.3 at startup.

In the cycle of no startup, both fans (I have an aux fan to help ventilate the compressor space) still operate, drawing about .5A. When the compressor tries to start both fans kick off.

Startup amp draw is about 6A (I disconnected the fans and the amp draw was about the same).

When the unit has started, amp draw is 6A with the fans. In a pretty hot box (80F+) the evaporator frosts up about halfway in an hour or so. Doesn't seem to be getting as frosted as before my bleeds.

Put my hand atop the compressor in the startup event and there appears to be no mechanical motion in the compressor. This is in contrast to when I had a faulty electronic unit last year and the compressor did actually have some motion before kicking out. Now it appears it is dead still.

Is there a way to check power to the actually compressor thru the power cord when the startup is attempted?

Or a way to test the electronic module outside of process of elimination? I suspect the module might have seen some pretty high temperatures recently.

Thanks

Peter

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kollmann
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: BD high current draw and Fan question
 

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Now that the refrigerant level has been reduced below the normal level and there is a start problem the Question is, are the fans drawing too much amperage? Disconnect them and connect them to another power source. When there are two fans it normally requires a relay.

Checking voltage at module will not discver a boat wiring problem. The only good voltage check is to connect the compressors electronic module direct to a full charged battery.

With the refrigerant low as is indicated now by reduced frost the amperage draw should be at 4 amps after unit runs for at least 15 minutes. If amperage is now above 4 there is a good chance the refrigerant is contaminated, requiring it to be evacuated with a good refrigerant vacuum pump. Be sure to use the correct refrigerant, BD2.5 Freon R12, BD3-BD35-BD50 all use 134a.
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R.L. Kollmann
Author of DIY Refrigeration & 12-24 Volt Refrigeration

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pouzts



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 5    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Fan Amperage
 

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Richard,

I've been monitoring the fan amp draw during the "down" cycle between attempted starts. It is pretty steady at .5A. I have also disconnected the fans and the startup amp draw is about the same. Also, the fans both "stop" during the attempted start cycle.

Unit amp draw when it has been able to start last time was at 6A (including the fans).

In a refrigerant vacuum process, does the dryer have to be replaced?

You seem to be pretty clear that the compressor is not the issue here. Should I pursue the control module fix options?

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kollmann
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject:
 

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Please disconnect the fans.

Eliminate the boats wiring as a problem.

Last test, send the module off to Miller to be checked.

The filter/dryer does not need to be changed because there if frost present on evaporator when unit is running.
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R.L. Kollmann
Author of DIY Refrigeration & 12-24 Volt Refrigeration

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pouzts



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 5    Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:44 am    Post subject: Update III
 

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Richard,

Per your instructions I have done the following:

Disconneted fans. Attempted to start under ship power. No start, module beeps. No motion felt inside the compressor.

Wired directly from 12V battery to control module (fans disconnected). Multiple start attempts do not start. About the sixth start attempt compressor starts. Did a couple of shutdown/restarts and the compressor started. One time it started then stopped after five seconds.

Wired back to ship power. No start (beep) in several attempts.

Wired back to direct 12v. No start in several attempts. I did monitor the battery voltage on startup sequence and it held at 12V. Note however the module had beeped well in advance of my meter reaching full scale.

I did call Miller Marine whom repaired my control module last year. The technician believed the problem was in the control module. He also stated that it is almost impossible to kill the BD compressors.

Peter

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kollmann
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject: Old BD troubleshooting
 

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The new BD compressors eliminate all of the time consuming trouble shooting with the programed LED signal. I agree with Miller Marine its time to repair the module again. Your unit is too old to spend $200 on a new module. One other option might be to ask around many of the old systems are being replaced because of R12 refrigerant phase out.
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R.L. Kollmann