Author Topic: Archive 22  (Read 3640 times)


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Archive 22
« on: May 02, 2012, 06:44:36 pm »
Redesign or rebuild
The CA one cylinder and the CE two cylinder compressors were manufactured by Blissfield then taken over by Tecumseh in 2001. I understand Tecumseh may still a few of the parts but no longer make them. If the used compressor you are looking at as you say is stored open it may not be worth the cost to rebuild. These belt driven compressors have never been considered efficient do to the 12 to 20% friction loss in the drive mechanism. In comparing each small mobile compressor manufacturers advertised COP efficiency figures I have not seen one that can out perform a Danfoss BD compressor. I am not sure what the valve is you are referring to but Sea Frost uses two different liquid to gas expansion devices, The engine drive has a thermo expansion valve that regulates superheat and the 110 volt system uses a Pressure regulating expansion valve.

Seafrost Valves
Richard- In the R-12 system they have only one valve(black box) in the R-134 system they have two black boxes in the high pressure side. That is part of what Seafrost wants to sell me in the $1500 conversion package from R-12 to 134. Also wondering if you would recommend a standard tube in shell condenser instead of the Seafrost PVC one. A new one of those (PVC) is in the kit as well. My present thinking is a spill-over with about a 1.5 cu ft freezer inside the refer box but in a sperate 1" foam box high in the box run by the Nova Kool twin plate system. There would be just one hatch to the box, but a seperate thin lid over the freezer area. Based on past experience with a 1.5" wall between totally seperate boxes, I think this will allow plenty of cooling to the rest of the say 4.5cu ft remaining refer side. If I can convert the Seafrost Economically I will keep the refer plate to tap that engine power when the engine is running for Ice making and a backup to the Nova Kool. Jeff

Fixed ventilation - still runs too much
I am underway crusiing on my boat. Before I left I added 25 sq inches of vent and a 5 inch computer fan to force more air past the condenser. Venting now exceeds mfg spech of 75 sq inches clear vents. Adding vent and fan does not seem to have impacted colling inside of box or run time. Right now it is 73 deg ambient in boat - fridge section reads about 34-37 deg, freezer reads 14-16 degrees, tstat is set on 2 out of 5 ( 5 being coolest ) - system is running about 75 percent of the time when not opened ( as in overnight ). Not sure what to do next. How do I check out the tstat? I did check and it is correctly mounted on the evap. Can the compressor be running at the wrong speed even if resistor is set OK? The factory setting for this unit is 3000 rpm.

Sounds like a good plan
If the present system has a plate in each box then that may be why there are two valves, follow the tubing. I dont know why you dont convert the present system to 134a as we covered in my comments a few days ago or stay with R12 there is plenty of it in south Florida and the islands. There are hundreds of Sea Frost seawater condensers working in the tropics why not keep what you have. If the high pressure is too high cut back on the compressors output by reducing the volume of refrigerant and maintain the condensers zinc. You dont need the capacity to freeze one ton of ice in an hour. The new box size and adding a Nova Kool twin plate sounds good.

Tundra problem
Because you reported earlier that there is frost covering all of the evaporator and none returning to the compressor, and this is the same model refrigerator as the previous one with the same problem, it must be a poorly designed unit for your application. Add a little more insulation between the refrigerator and freezer to increase the temperature difference. This will lower the freezer temp without lowering the refrigerator temp and set the thermostat to a higher number. This may not be an efficient solution but you own the unit and it will work as a refrigerator/freezer even if it means the compressor runs 24 hours per day. Sorry but not every product lives up to its advertised claims.

Refrigeration in 'new to me' 2001 Beneteau 381
We have just purchased a 2001 Beneteau 381 with what I believe is the original refrigeration system installed - I think it is an 'Adler Barbour' unit. It's alrgish top loading system with 2 'compartments' - the metal u shaped piece that gets cold is on one side and there are 'vets' that look like they allow cold air to spill through from one side to the other. There is a control unit with a knob (that has broken) and the spindle itself appears to be seized - pliers wont turn it in either direction, so I will need to replace this over the winter, onece I can identify the componenent it appears to be a simple replacement. Now I become less certain. When I turn the unit on I can hear te pump working and I can feel the air coming out of the vent, I can also tell there is refrigerant circulating, but the unit does not get below 48 degrees (air temperature here in the NE at the time of this test was low 60's). Could this be because my electronic unit is ot calling for 'cold' or does maybe the refrigerant need topping up or changing ? Is this latter a do it yourself option or am I looking at $85 an hour marine prices to do this work for me ? Any other owners out there with this Beneteau that have tips ? - Next time I go to the boat I can get exact moel numbers etc if it helps (Im sure it will). Thanks Mark

Parts for Blu-Cold compressors.
If it is a Crosby system you might try Gary Buttrey, Technical Support Manager of WAECO/ Adler Barbour. I believe he was with Crosby and stayed with the product lines after several name changes. You could also try Climate Control who acquired at least two small compressor companies and parts. Rich Bears refrigeration in Ft Lauderdale did repair many of the old Crosby units and my still sell the parts.

Poor Performance
On an older unit that does not cool enough I would always check and vacuum the condenser coil for dust and lint blockage. On some models the fan must be removed to get to the intake side of coil. To determine the refrigerant charge let the unit run for one hour, there then should be a thin layer of frost covering 100% of the U shaped coil in the box. If the frost only covers a portion of the plate and there is good airflow through condenser you may need a small amount of refrigerant. To rule out the thermostat I would place a jumper across the two wires at thermostat and let unit run for several hours to see how cold the box gets. If you can Email or mail me general pictures of your system it may help.

Thanks, appreciate the advice. I'll be bringing the boat 'home' from Hingham MA to Portsmouth RI this coming week - was going to be this weekend but 50 knot winds put paid to that ! This is the only photo I have right now [img:ae874d79cc][/img:ae874d79cc] Ill take more photos and try as you suggest on the 2 day truip home

Coiled excess tubing too close to compressor?
Mr. Kollmann , I have your excellent book and have been reading/rereading . I just spent the weekend installing my new cold machine (BD 50 )and large verticle evaporator into a 5.5 CF box. I coiled the excess tubing into a 12" coil (small I know ,but fits better)and had a convenient place just a foot or so in front and above where the cooling fan draws air thru the condensor. Is this coil going to get hot ?and do I need to insulate it as to keep the air cooler in front of my condensor.It is mounted below water line in a large Lazerette that is open to the stern area of a 30 foot C&C (well over 100 CF). I also plan on putting reflective insulation to keep engine heat out of the lazerette and a "T" in my blower to draw off heat out of the lazerette (3 inch suction opening only 6 inches from the compressor) This will draw heat out of both engine room and lazerette when motoring. My cruising ground is the Sea of Cortez (6-8 wks in May/ June). Air temp 90F+ ,sea temp 68F- 82F. Also the resistor at the thermostat is a 2500 rpm one Is this something I need to change as I winter in southern Colorado (Cold air Cold water)What do you think of my plan , the coiled tubing placement and the resistor Thanks Buz Branch

AB Poor performance
Your picture is what I needed to understand the type system you have. This system is about ten years old because it uses Adler Barbours old condenser for the BD3 compressor and their old disconnects, but it does has the new variable speed compressor. It also has their new style relay connecter panel. This model Adler Barbour Cold Machine is delivered with the condenser fan mounted out front forcing air through coil and around compressor; this means the fan must be removed to remove dust from coil fins. Installations instructions for ducting air to another area have suggested turning the condenser fan around to draw air from compressor and exhausting it through the duct. If your fan is bring air into the compressor through coil it will require getting access to it at least see the coil inlet fins.

New Adler Barbour
I think as long as the tubing coil does not touch the compressor it will be fine and no insulation of it is required. I would tie wrap the coil to prevent vibration or movement. You say the compressor speed is set to 2500 rpm and you have the large vertical evaporator (fifteen inch bin?). To confirm this speed there will be a paper decal on the plastic cover of thermostat, 2500 rpm would require a 270 ohm (color black) AB resistor. For a speed of 2500 rpm the last three numbers on label should be 270. Adler Barbour now uses phone jack wire for thermostat and a very small resister is on one of these small wires near thermostat end. If your insulation is any good at all 2500 rpm should be good for that size box. If you want to have a speed up spare resistor onboard then make up an add-on in series resistor leaving the present one in place. Increasing speed to 3000 rpm will require adding an additional resistor of approximately 410 ohms giving a total resistance of 680 ohms. If you use the example on page 45 and make up a short jumper with a male terminal on one end and a female on the other no tools will be needed to change speeds up to 3000 and then back to 2500. Do not allow the total resistance in this circuit to exceed 1500 ohms which is maximum speed of 3500 rpm for this compressor.

Thanks for the info. The unit is installed on a 2001 Beneteau, I assumed it was new at that time. Could it be that Beneteau was just not using state of the art equipment at the time ? Does that neccesarilly make it bad ? I know sometimes older units like my snowblower are actually better than the stuff you buy in the stores today (built down to a price is what I say). When you say [quote:1017ea57c5]Your picture is what I needed to understand the type system you have. This system is about ten years old because it uses Adler Barbour's old condenser for the BD3 compressor and their old disconnects, but it does has the new variable speed compressor. It also has their new style relay connecter panel. [/quote:1017ea57c5] Are these bad ? or just an observation on what I have ? I'll do some preliminary examination and non destructive disassembly to see what's what. I'll also try the cleaning and the hot-wiring you suggest. I do know that the fan pushes air out of the hose as it blows onto the floor area for the forecabin which is where it is ducted to.

AB Performance
You have a fine unit, a good installation and it will do the job and last another ten to fifteen years. The difference in your unit versus a new model would only be a problem if the evaporator needed to be replaced, as the line connectors are not the same on new units. Air flow out the duct means a quick look at the compressor side of coil will do. If the picture was clearer at the condenser I could see blockage if there was any. when it is bad it covers half of the front surface. The major concern now is areas where frost is present, evaporator 100% and none on line back toward compressor.

Older Kollmann Refrigeration System
Two years ago I bought a 1988 Crealock 34, Irish Eyes (ex Jester and ex Diastole II). The boat has a Kollmann refrigeration system with both a 125v hermetic and an engine drive system with a freeze blast. The two systems are entirely separate except that they share a single eutectic plate in the freezer half of the box. While the 125v system has some rust on the compressor mounting plate and the exterior of the hermetic compressor, it is in good working order. We have used it when cruising by cooling our food and freezing the holding plate in a marina then adding a few bags of ice. The combination keeps things in the freezer solidly frozen for two days or more and keeps the cooler side of the box below 40F for four days or so. Then it is marina time again. I added a ventilation fan to circulate air through the cockpit locker to help cool the 125v systems condenser, and I put a small fan in the cooler side of the box to even out the temperatures in the cooler side of the box. The engine drive system was missing its compressor when I bought the boat. Both the hoses and clutch wire had been cut. I would like to restore the system. I bought and read your two books. I bought a Sanden SD5H14 S6664 compressor. I fabricated a new compressor mount to fit atop the engine. (The old one on the side let the compressor rub on the fuel fill and vent hoses and blocked access to the oil dipstick and fuel bleed screw.) I have pressure tested the water condenser with air (44 psig without any change for 5 days). I plan to replace the all the rubber hoses, install short pieces of tubing in place of the receiver and filter dryer, flush the system backwards from the compressor connections with aerosol flush, and blow the flush out with compressed air. With that done Ill hook up the compressor, install the compressor, and vacuum the system. Then I plan to install a new filter/dryer and receiver, vacuum again, charge the system with 134a, and get started. Are there other things that I should be doing ? Bill Murdoch

Laminating insulation
I am getting ready to add insulation using blueboard. Wondering what kind of adhesive to use to laminate 1" pieces together. Was going to use contact cement, but understand it can damage the foam. Suggestions?

Thanks for the intel. Just a few more quick questions. Where would I find Climate Control? Also, do you have any phone numbers for these people or can I reach them thru their companies websites? It is most definitely a Crosby system. I believe it was installed on the boat when it was commissioned. Thanks again, Chris

AC/DC Power for 12 volt Refrigerator
I have not tested the Xantrex True Charge 40 so I can not say what happens to a battery bank when operating 12 volt refrigerator at the dock. The tests I have run show that even the more expensive Heart inverter charger set to limit battery bank temperature to 100 degrees F will still show excessive water loss in two to three weeks. Float charging voltage alone at one tenth amp and 12.9 amps should not create water level problems but it will if the 12 volt refrigerator is left on. One way to find out if the advice you received from Electricboat was correct is to leave the refrigerator running at the dock and check the water level every two weeks. If the battery level holds for more than a month I would think there is no real stress on batteries. If after your own test talk to WAECO Adler Barbour Technical people about the converters they sell for the new Danfoss compressors.

I still haven't resolved this issue. I certainly trust your experience and especially your test results. However, Boat Electric, whose business is charging systems as well as refrigerators, insist that the charger I have (which is one they sell, Xantrex True Charge 40) the dc current is passed directly to the refrigerator (Danfoss) without affecting the batteries. They will sell me the AC switching converter if I want it, but say it is a waste of money. I also did my own test at the dock by turning on about 10 amps of draw while the charger was connected to shore power. The fan on the charger never kicked on as it does when charging the batteries, which seemed to indicate that the batteries were not being drawn down. What am I missing?