Author Topic: Archive 10  (Read 4580 times)

Richard

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Archive 10
« on: May 03, 2012, 10:15:44 am »
Archive 10

Re: AC/DC powered WAECO BD35 Compressor 
[quote:06d636b9a6="kollmann"]It sounds like we must start all over from the beginning and this time stay with the program. 1a. Problem as you describe it : The WAECO AC/DC BD35 refrigeration runs on both power supplies AC/DC for a while then it will not restart for a long period of time. [b:06d636b9a6]YES [/b:06d636b9a6] 1b. You believe it restarts after something cools off. [b:06d636b9a6]NOT SURE what causes unit to restart - it was never hot. [/b:06d636b9a6] 2. There is good airflow through condenser Yes or No? [b:06d636b9a6] YES, fan flow seems quite good and there is an aux fan and vent that keep the cupboard that unit is in cool (<100F)[/b:06d636b9a6] 3. If the Danfoss electronic module is exposed to temperatures above 134 degrees it will stop compressor. Is the condensing unit area cool enough? [b:06d636b9a6]Compartment that houses unit was quite cool at time of problem, 65 to 85F - I have seen it higher (100 - 120F) but that was before the aux cooling fan was installed[/b:06d636b9a6] 4. The AC power module may also have a temperature limit. Is the AC power module mounted vertical as require, DC power out at bottom Yes or No? [b:06d636b9a6]YES - Installed per instructions and is remote from refrig unit (at nav station)[/b:06d636b9a6] 5. The same problem is present when AC power is disconnected, Yes or No? [b:06d636b9a6]YES at time, I tried switching to DC from batteries and it still would not start, but eventually did some time later.[/b:06d636b9a6] 6a. Your ohm test of wiring is of no value as a low voltage spike only happens when there is a surge of starting current. [b:06d636b9a6]I realise this, but did watch digital meter closely during the startup tests I described and did not see any spikes - meter may damp out any spikes, but I don't see how else I could see a spike.[/b:06d636b9a6] 6b. Have you disconnected the power source at electrical module and run a 10 amp fused set of jumper wires, with the right polarity directly from a fully charged battery to module, Yes or No? [b:06d636b9a6]NO - because unit starts fine even with existing wiring from both sources, when it is a fresh start - It was after a day or so that we had problem, so this is hard to trouble shoot - I suppose only way would be to have a set of jumper wires ready for the next time this happens. [/b:06d636b9a6] 7. When the unit would not run did you disconnect either the red or black wire to the fan to see if compressor would run, Yes or NO? [b:06d636b9a6]At the time I did know about this, so did not try it - next time it happens, I will try that.[/b:06d636b9a6] 8. Have you listened for a Beep sound when compressor fails to start, this may tell us if the problem is in the unit or the AC/DC switching device. Yes or No? [b:06d636b9a6]I did not hear a beep - but it is hard to know if and when the unit attempted to start - It just sat there making no attempt to start and did not come on despite a rising box temperature[/b:06d636b9a6] 9. We need to know if the thermostat turns off the power to the electrical module or it allows the module to control the compressor cycling. If there is a jumper wire between module terminals C and T then the thermostat controls the power to the unit. Wire colors other than red and black have no meaning to me as I do not have a WAECO electrical drawing. Is there a jumper Yes or No? [b:06d636b9a6]NO jumper between C & T at terminals[/b:06d636b9a6] 10. Something is wrong with your installation of LED it should only flash, not stay on and this only happens when there is a problem, so disconnect it. [b:06d636b9a6]It was removed immediately after test - I only touched against spade. Because access is difficult, it s possible that it may have been grounding on something other that the D connection which is just a spade on this unitI will try this again with better connections. [/b:06d636b9a6] [/quote:06d636b9a6] Because this problem only showed up after an extended period of use, it is not easy to test. Ideally, I would use some type of datalogger to record temperature and current but I don't have suitable equipment. I was thinking of using video camera, but I think maximum per tape is 90 min. I may have to go down and stay on boat for a long enough period to see if I can get same symptoms and then try disconnecting fan etc. I have learned a lot here, but I realise it is hard for you to diagose this intermittent problem at a distance. Thanks for your interest.


Well the rime ice is collecting on the holding plate, not on the outside. I have plenty of insulation and good seals on the lids. In fact I have used a temprature gun to check for leaks around the lids after trying different seals. The present configuration seems to be the best of what I have tried over the years. I think the moisture comes from opening the fridge-lid 10 times a day and the freezer-lid 3 times a day. (Spill-over system with 2 boxes and 2 lids.) Plenty of moist air entering the boxes. The question is how to keep it from attaching to the holding plate and forming rime-ice that will insulate the cold plate from the freezer compartment..?

Engine drive to 12 volt
If the engine driven refrigeration did not keep the box cool then the box size and insulation is the problem. In tropical climates it will still require you to run the engine two hours per day with 12 volt refrigeration even with a well insulated smaller box. The way to reduce engine run time is to add Solar and or wind alternative power. Two hundred watts of solar panels should provide enough power for a four cubic ft box on sunny days. If you dont need a freezing section in a four cu ft box and plan on solar or wind power then a holding plate is a good idea. The problem with 12 volt icebox conversion unit and holding plates is the plates are normally too small and lack the surface area to transfer the compressors output to the refrigerator box. If you want a unit with a holding plate then I would recommend a Technautic Cool Blue unit. If you want a small freezing section I would recommend either a Frigoboat Capri 50 or Adler Barbour Cold machine with Chamber evaporators and Battery capacity instead od holding plates. Regardless of the manufacture selected If a BD 50 compressor is the unit needed necessary functioning parts are the same and available.

12 volt choices
Thanks for your reply.The Technautics Cool Blue looks great, but at more that twice the price is not an option. We aren't trying to get a freezer, just reliable refrigeration. I am really attracted to the controllers that take advantage of the extra power when you have it in the cold plate systems. There doesn't seem to be such a controller with the ColdMachine, only with the CoolMatic. What's the difference between ColdMachine and CoolMatic? Is there an automatic power detection unit that works with the ColdMachine? Is the Coolmatic CU-94 with VD-06 energy accumulator a good match for our 4 cubic foot box in the tropics? Thanks again for your opinions and advice, susie

Selecting
There are three automatic speed controllers for the BD50 compressors; Danfoss has available their Adaptive Energy Optimization (AEO) module, Isotherm their Auto Speed Up (ASU) and Frigoboat their Smart Speed Control (SSC). The Isotherms unit is the only speed controller that also will start compressor anytime a charging current is available. My test results of the Isotherm and Frigoboat controllers are in my 12/24 volt manual. All three of these units do function as advertised. As far as a charging voltage switch to install on a non automatic speed controlled BD compressor, I have used a Battery combiner. The combiner is connected to a relay on thermostat wiring to start compressor when a charging voltage is present. For your application if condensing units location is correct for good air-cooling and free from salt mist I see no performance difference between the CU94 and a Cold Machine when connected to the VD 06 holding plate.

Troubleshooting
Experience learned from past troubleshooting can define and solve problems. The number one problem experienced with BD compressors is a low voltage fault in the boats electrical system and on your boat that includes the AC/DC module, bypassing all of it is the only way to eliminate it. High temperature or an overload shutdown from is generally related to condenser and module cooling. Condenser fan drawing more than one half amp is the simplest item to eliminate. Placing a jumper across the thermostat terminals at module will eliminate thermostat and its wiring. If the system has not had refrigerant added or gauges connected to it then refrigerant can be eliminated. The only way to eliminate a bad module is to replace it. Compressors rarely fail on air-cooled units but when they do there are two modes of failure, shorting of internal wiring or mechanical failure inside. Resistance testing of wiring can confirm or eliminate it as a problem. Mechanical failure can only be confirmed by replacing compressor.

1980 boat w/Cold Machine?
I have the earlier model Adler-Barber with fan blowing but no cold in line or evaporator unit. Initially noticed no cooling and felt top of compressor. It was warm, not hot, now it does nothing. Where it is is so difficult to get to and see anything I have not checked anything but the lines. Questions: 1-If I unscrew the unit from its support and try to disconnect the lines what might I face? 2-If I replace with the Cold Machine CU-100 will it attach to the embedded lines from the old one? 3-Can the old evaporator work with the CU-100? 4-What would you suggest to do first? Thank you, Steve

Repair or Replace
Fan runs, compressors warm and no cooling, sounds like all refrigerant is lost. These aluminum evaporators have a service life of from ten to twenty years depending on use and abuse. At some point small pin holes corrode through evaporators thin aluminum releasing refrigerant. I do not recommend replacing only the condensing unit assembly and keeping the old evaporator on your old Adler Barbour for several reasons: If the evaporator is not the problem now it will soon be. The new condensing unit will have a different oil and refrigerant and the line connections are not the same on new unit. You will need to hire a repairman to try to, clean out old refrigerant and oil from evaporator, install the correct connectors, vacuum and dehydrate moisture and then service the system with 134a. Total cost $250 to $400 labor and materials. If you replace only the condensing unit there will be no warranty. The first thing you should do is watch the slide show on this web site then shop for a complete unit that fits your needs. I know this is not the advice you wanted but it is the best I can do.

Re: Troubleshooting
[quote:55d53758a0="kollmann"]Experience learned from past troubleshooting can define and solve problems. [/quote:55d53758a0] Thanks Richard for the good summary of what to look for [quote:55d53758a0]The number one problem experienced with BD compressors is a low voltage fault in the boats electrical system and on your boat that includes the AC/DC module, bypassing all of it is the only way to eliminate it.[/quote:55d53758a0] I will make up a jumper that will go direct from batteries to unit for use next time I have this problem [quote:55d53758a0]High temperature or an overload shutdown from is generally related to condenser and module cooling.[/quote:55d53758a0] Probably not the problem because temperatures were low, but point noted. [quote:55d53758a0]Condenser fan drawing more than one half amp is the simplest item to eliminate.[/quote:55d53758a0] OK [quote:55d53758a0]Placing a jumper across the thermostat terminals at module will eliminate thermostat and its wiring.[/quote:55d53758a0] Which terminals? C&T? [quote:55d53758a0]If the system has not had refrigerant added or gauges connected to it then refrigerant can be eliminated. [/quote:55d53758a0] Unit is sealed at factory, so unlikely cause [quote:55d53758a0]The only way to eliminate a bad module is to replace it. Compressors rarely fail on air-cooled units but when they do there are two modes of failure, shorting of internal wiring or mechanical failure inside. Resistance testing of wiring can confirm or eliminate it as a problem. Mechanical failure can only be confirmed by replacing compressor.[/quote:55d53758a0] Does your book cover method of testing compressor? Because unit runs normally when first started and for long periods therefater, it is not easy to get at this problem. I am thinking about adding some type of data logging - But, because this is a one time problem, I don't want to make a big investment in data logging instruments. All I really need, is box temperature and compressor on/off cycle vs time. But it woud also be nice to know ambient temperature at condenser/module and perhaps current and voltage. I have looked at several units, but they do cost almost 50% of the cost of the refrig unit :(