Author Topic: Archive 9  (Read 4590 times)

Richard

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Archive 9
« on: May 03, 2012, 10:17:58 am »
AC to DC BD35 compressor problem
1. If you disconnect shore power from boat the question of high voltage will be eliminated. The BD35 Module can except voltages up to 29 volts before it shuts down compressor. 2. I have no information on Mobiletronics's inverter or how it is wired to the Danfoss module. If one of the safety perimeters of module is being violated there will be a single audible beep coming from module. Is there a beep sound when unit is turned on and unit does no run? Does fan run even if unit does not run? 3. Terminal P on module is only used if low voltage cutout is to be increased so if there is a wire on P terminal remove it and tape the lose end. 4. The only wire to be connected to Module terminal D is a ground wire from troubleshooting LED and that ground is only activated when a module parameter is exceeded. One flash of LED indicates low voltage, Two flashes a fan problem and so on. Low voltage on start may not be detectable with a meter unless you have Superman's eyes. Any resistance connection in wiring anywhere between module and battery will signal module to abort when current starts to flow, that why I recommend by passing all wiring. Correction to my first post the LED on older compressors is connected to terminals C and D but on BD35 and BD50 compressors it is connected to the small + terminal and the D terminal.


Thanks for the reply Richard. > > 1. If you disconnect shore power from boat the question of high voltage > will be eliminated. The BD35 Module can except voltages up to 29 volts > before it shuts down compressor. Yes - If battery charger is the cause this will help. Unit should run OK on Mobitronic unit and has in past - But I need to do some detailed testing. > 2. I have no information on Mobiletronics's inverter or how it is > wired to the Danfoss module. FYI - The Waeco Mobitronic rectifier accepts 110V and puts out 24V nominal. When AC is present, a solenoid acitivates which switches off DC battery power. The DC power from the battery runs to this unit and then on to the refrig unit Here are some links - I suppose it is possible that this unit has a fault, because even DC from battery goes through it's internal switch. http://makeashorterlink.com/?T1782437D http://www.waeco.biz/tmp/MPS-35_B_d_gb_04.pdf > If one of the safety perimeters of module > is being violated there will be a single audible beep coming from > module. Is there a beep sound when unit is turned on and unit does no > run? Does fan run even if unit does not run? I have not heard a beep and fan does not run. Unit just seems to go into hibernation, but then it eventually wakes up after temperature in box has risen 10F or more. I will post again later after I go down to boat.


I checked a few more things: 1. Tonight I ran the unit on straight DC, on DC with charger running and on 24v DC via rectifier. It started up normally in each case. I took some voltages at control box terminals: 12v DC from house battery: No load 12.75v, running 12.2v 12v DC with charger on: No Load 14v, running 13.15v (erratic readings) 24v DC from rectifier: No Load 26.15v, running 26.01v 2. No ammeter, but I measured resistance from battery to control box - meter not accurate enough, but fluctuated from 0.1 to 0.2 ohms on positive and negative. If voltage loss is 12.75-12.2=0.55V and resistance was 0.1 ohms, current would be 5.5 Amps which seems about right. [CHECKED WITH CLAMP ON METER ~4.7A RUNNING, 5.9 PEAK AT STARTUP] 3. Checked wiring on control box : _ Power Negative + Power Positive ___Red to fan + |___Yellow/green to evaporator cable F ____Darker Blue to evaporator cable |___ Lighter blue to fan D Not connected C Brown to evaporator cable P Not connected T Yellow with resistor? to black to evaporator cable Evaporator has fan, so yellow/green & light blue probably power it. 4. I connected a LED between D and small + and it lit up with steady green light All of this seems NORMAL. So back to original problem :) Problem - Unit allowed temperature to rise from 38 to 48F without coming on after being in service for about 1/2 day. We did switch from 12V battery to 24V after we docked - I did not switch off controls on thermostat - is it possible that automatic switch from 12V to 24V when Mobitronics unit comes on could cause a spike that would confuse the controls?

Power Supply Question
I have a 1 year old Adler Barbour Cold Machine system. Since the boat spends the majority of the time at the dock, I was wondering about installing a transformer that would supply DC current directly to the refrigeration system rather than relying on the battery and battery charger. If this sound reasonable, any leads on where to get a transformer that would supply the correct current to power my unit? Thanks. Ken Krawford

danfoss bd80 glacier bay micro HPS
danfoss bd 80 compressor I was thinking off using this type of compressor 1 for a freezer and one for a fridge they would be slightly over sized but the price difference between these and a bd 50 are minimal also if ran while generator was running this would cut the load on the battery system there seems to be few unit available using these units I noted that the max evap pressure is lower than other Danfoss compressors would this be a problem I would also be interested on any information on glacier bay's micro hps it is a constant speed compressor how can it be efficient running a 6000btu/hour air conditioner or a 51 btu/hour hybrid hold over plate on either a fridge or freezer it sounds a great concept to be able to run multiple zones and types of equipment on the one compressor do you know of other companys with similar concepts thank you

AC/DC powered WAECO BD35 Compressor
It sounds like we must start all over from the beginning and this time stay with the program. Problem as you describe it : The WAECO AC/DC BD35 refrigeration runs on both power supplies AC/DC for a while then it will not restart for a long period of time. You believe it restarts after something cools off. Does this describe the problem? There is good airflow through condenser Yes or No? If the Danfoss electronic module is exposed to temperatures above 134 degrees it will stop compressor. Is the condensing unit area cool enough? The AC power module may also have a temperature limit. Is the AC power module mounted vertical as require, DC power out at bottom Yes or No? The same problem is present when AC power is disconnected, Yes or No? Your ohm test of wiring is of no value as a low voltage spike only happens when there is a surge of starting current. Have you disconnected the power source at electrical module and run a 10 amp fused set of jumper wires, with the right polarity directly from a fully charged battery to module, Yes or No? When the unit would not run did you disconnect either the red or black wire to the fan to see if compressor would run, Yes or NO? Have you listened for a Beep sound when compressor fails to start, this may tell us if the problem is in the unit or the AC/DC switching device. Yes or No? We need to know if the thermostat turns off the power to the electrical module or it allows the module to control the compressor cycling. If there is a jumper wire between module terminals C and T then the thermostat controls the power to the unit. Wire colors other than red and black have no meaning to me as I do not have a WAECO electrical drawing. Is there a jumper Yes or No? Something is wrong with your installation of LED it should only flash, not stay on and this only happens when there is a problem, so disconnect it.

AC Power supply for Adler Barbour
I know that Danfoss the compressor manufacture recommend that their older units must be connected direct to battery and not to a power supply. Waeco and Isotherm do sell AC/DC power supplies for the newly designed BD35 compressors. At one time Adler Barbour did not recommend these power units for their larger BD50 compressor units. The best place to get an answer to your question on AC power supplies would be to e mail, TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE Gary Buttrey Technical Support Manager (e) gbuttrey@waecousa.com Others will have the same question on operating their unit on AC saving the stress on batteries, so please post your findings here.

Yet another Adler Barbour compressor won't start story ...
Hey Folks (mainly Richard), Specifics: Circa 1992 AD Cold Machine, second generation electronic unit which was recently repaired by Miller Marine, recently recharged with R12, cools well, glazes evaporator. Reasonable cycling times. What's Happened: Compressor fails to start, electronic unit beeps. Sometimes the compressor will start and run for quite some time. When it attempts to cycle it will not restart. Sometimes the compressor will start but then stop in non-cyclic situation (it was not ready to cycle). Note that when the compressor would not start prior to the electronic unit being repaired I would get no beep. What I've done: First, I have the book. Ok, I checked the conderser fins - they're clean. I disconnected the small auxiliary fan and condenser fan. The compressor started, then stopped mid-cycle. Failed to start again (electronic beeps). Waited some time, failed to start. With the fans disconnected the ammeter at the power panel shows a spike to 6.8 amps. However, it seems the beep has already beeped before the amps spike so the actual spike will be less. When the unit operates it's in the 7 amp range. Checked the compressor winding resistance. Although the pinout was a little confusing I think I got them right. My voltmeter (although brand spanking new) does not have the highest resolution so 0.1 ohm was the limit. I can't say the temperature was exactly 75F but if anything it was probably not lower than 75F. 1 -> 3 0.5 4 -> 3 0.6 2 -> 3 4.3 I can accept that this unit is shot but when looking at $1000 replacement I'd be willing to make sure it's really dying. Thanks in advance for the help. Peter

converting from engine driven
We have used an engine driven system on a 40ft ex-Moorings Beneteau for 4 Caribbean seasons. It does not work well, and has been island modified too many times. It requires running the engine twice a day, which has not been a problem. Our first choice for replacement was the Isotherm ASU system. We think that a coldplate with ASU will suit our lifestyle -- we use the engine regularly to enter and leave harbors, and as needed when there is no wind. We sail frequently, spend a few days at anchor in any given location. We will be adding more battery power, better alternator and solar panels. We are also decreasing the size of the box and putting in new insulation. The improved box will be about 4 cubic feet. From this site and your book we've learned that Waeco/Adler-Barbour has a similar control. This brand is more common in the island chain, so parts and knowledgeable people would be easier to find. From the Waeco catalog, it is difficult to figure out what parts to buy. It looks like the "TEC" control is only available with the coolmatic 90-series. We are considering the Isotherm 3701 with bdf50 compressor and medium holding plate. An advantage of Isotherm is that it comes with everything ready to install, and I can read the installation instructions on line. Is the Coolmatic CU-94 with VD-06 energy accumulator with TEC control unit an equivalent system? Thanks for any advice. Susie

Refrigeration Size
It you have watched my Slide Show on this web site you know that box sizes, how they are used and where you cruise will determine the size compressor you need. When the slide show was put on line there was no good information on either the BD80 or Micro HPS. Each BD80 can produce about 800 Btu per hour with a evaporator temperature of +10 degrees F. You should select a 12 volt compressor with matching components so that it will offer the least amount of amp hours per day unless you are planning on a large system with large holding plates. On large systems it is almost always necessary to run an engine while running refrigeration compressor. My web site slide show will guide you through the steps necessary to select a size compressor for each of your boxes. The BD80 is not covered in slide show but it has 30% more capacity than the BD50. I do not know what you mean by lower evaporator pressures, high evaporator pressures are for air-conditioning low pressures are for freezers. It is the refrigeant expansion device's job to control low pressure. When you have the proper high liquid pressure and temperature it will be the evaporators low pressure that controls the box's temperature. As far as the Micro HPS system I have not find anyone pleased with it yet in a warm climate but I am still looking.

Evaporator Frost
Moisture on the outside of a refrigerator indicates the insulation is poor. Moisture inside a refrigerator indicates moist air is infiltrating into the box. Any time an object is ten degrees colder than the air, moisture will collect on the object. Moisture always collects on the refrigerant evaporator and forms frost in a refrigerator. Trying to eliminating evaporator frost by insulating it is not the answer. Keeping moisture out of the box is the answer.

BD 2.5 Drawing 7 amps
An old Adler Barbour may not have a shroud around the condenser fan, there is a simple fix for this pictured in my book it is on page 42 in the 12 volt book and on page 126 in the DIY book. If the compressor is drawing 7 amps when running, it is definitely running in a overload condition. Either there is insufficient condenser cooling, air in refrigerant, or it has too much refrigerant. If you confirm the condenser cooling airflow is good I would remove a small amount of refrigerant to lower the amp draw to 5. This reduction of refrigerant must be done in steps and when compressor is not too warm. Stop compressor and remove refrigerant for one second wait five minutes then start compressor and wait 15 minutes to check amp draw. Repeat this procedure as many times as necessary to reach 5 amps.