Author Topic: Archive 2  (Read 4668 times)

Richard

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Archive 2
« on: May 03, 2012, 10:53:03 am »

Archive 2


AB Blown Fuse
Older 12V AB with screw in 8 Amp fuse. Blows fuse few minutes after start up. Shows about 10 Amp draw on Amp Guage. Compressor pins 1&3 .03, 4&3 .02, 2&5 .000. The vertical Evaporator appears to be in good conditon, no paint peeling or blisters. Based on the above would it be best to replace with new unit. Boat new to me, do not belive its worked for a number of years. Thanks Chuck

Old Adler Barbour Module
On the oldest Danfoss module a shorted fan can cause the fuse to blow, have you tried disconnecting the fan? You listed resistance between terminals 2 and 5 as 000 there is no terminal five. Testing between any two terminals will always indicate a very small resistance. If there is no continuity between any terminal and ground ( the compressor dome) then the problem is probably in the electronic module. If you are skilled in electrical component replacement you may want to try replacing the power transistors on the face of your module. These transistors are the motor choppers and can not be purchased from Danfoss or Motorola. For the Danfoss control unit for the BD 2.5 series 102N3115 module there are two direct replacements bolt on transistors, wire up and dont forget the heat sink grease. NTE/ECG (249) or (251), RCA (SK 9440) or (SK 3858).

Which book do I buy?
New to your forum, but not to your advice in other sailing forums. I have an 1984 O'day 39, with a generator, and 2 batteries. I live in New England, and want to convert the ice box to a fridge. Which one of your two books is the best place to start? I do not go off shore, but I do stay away from my home port for up to 2 weeks. I'm tired of purchasing frozen water, and then pumping it out of the ice box. I have read your comments about decreasing insulation efficiency over time, the ice box does stay cold with 2-3 blocks of ice, but by the 3rd day it's mostly water. I plan on doing this myself. My appologies if this is a double post, I tohught I posted this earlier, but I did not see it in the index making me think that I clicked "Preview" as opposed to "Submit" Thank You..

Selecting
A 12 volt system and book is probably the best choices to meet your needs. The first step is to watch the slide show on this web site as it will guide you through the decisions you need to make before buying anything. If and when the decision is made to install 12 volt refrigeration then its time to upgrade the boats charging and battery storage systems if necessary. After you watch the slide show and send me your box size, battery capacity and alternator output I can recommend the type system and equipment you will need.

Grunert Baysider fails to start    Archive 2
I have a 16 year old Grunert Baysider unit that now fails to start. It will cycle every 10-15 seconds, attempting to start and drawing the starting amps, but fails. The odd thing is that every once in a while (about once a week) it starts up and cycles normally for 6-12 hours, before stopping. We had experienced something similar to this in the months leading to the problem, where the unit would very occasionally fail to start and cycle half a dozen times, before succeeding. Now it usually doesn't work. I have checked the charge, which appears normal. The voltage getting to the unit also appears normal. What could cause this intermittent starting? Would a new unit be better than fixing this?

Danfoss BD2.5 or BD3 Compressor no start
If the electronic module senses a low voltage during start the compressor will not run. A low voltage spike can not be detected with a meter and can be caused by; low battery voltage, boat wiring, high fan current or the module itself. I have found the quickest way to troubleshoot this problem is to run a temporary set of fused jumper wires direct from a fully charged battery to the module, bypassing the boats wiring, switches and circuit breaker. Now if the unit runs OK look for a resistance connection in the boats wiring, start with the circuit breaker. The next step is to eliminate the fan by connecting it to another source of 12 volt power. Now if the compressor starts all the time replace the fan as it is drawing more than one amp.


Yeah, I got a small green light that is on when the compressor is on. Not so much to tell me if it IS running, but rather to let me know if the auxcillary cooling fans I mounted in the compressor compartemt are still running. The idea is that the system could over-heat without these extra fans when the lid is closed. (When we sail in rough seas, the lid is closed to prevent damage to the compressor and control unit from flying bottle of vinegear and other galley stuff) So, uh no domestic problems turning the fridge off the chat on the radio, as long as the wife has cold Chardonney and Ben and Jerrys Ice cream, she is very happy and can sail forever.. 8)

Follow up to Polyo Ester Oil in a Tecumseh Compressor
I am posting this information to add to the knowledge contained on this board. This is not a question for Richard Kollman. I found out what Polyo Ester Oil goes in the Technicold 110VAC compressor: The AJA2425AXA is the model number of the compressor. It comes with 22 ozs. of Alkylbenzene oil. When you change the oil use 22 ozs.of Polyol Ester. We have approved Emkarate RL32S, Mobil-EAL Arctic 32, Castrol - Icematic 32 I have still not yet completed my installation due to a change in scheduling of projects, but will start in about a month. Only think left to find is the R-134a tap-a-can to R-12 manifold male/male adapter.

Spill over box
I have a spill over refrigeration box 6.0 cu feet with an isotherm system. The holding plate area is approx 1 cu foot. Should the freezer area with the holding plate be insulated from the rest of the refrigeration section?? If so why? Thanks for all you help Frank

Spillover Refrigerator Freezer
A freezer must be a separate insulated compartment from the refrigerator on most boat ice box conversions. The temperature difference (Delta T) between the refrigerator and freezer must be from 45 to 23 degrees F and will depend on whether the freezer is to be for long term or short term food storage. For a short term freezer that operates no warmer than 22 degrees F I recommend a inch insulated divider, for a low temperature long term freezer I would use a 1 inch insulated divider. As to whether you will end up with a successful combination box it will depend on a number of design and operating variables: Size of the compressor, surface area of holding plate, existing insulation, efficiency of the spillover device, cruising climate and the boats ability to provide the daily electrical power needed for a five cu. ft refrigerator and a one cu. ft. freezer.


thanks, it is used for short term storage...I will insulate thae top cpmpartment and give it a try !

New Refrigeratin at Boat Show,s
Boat shows and Flea Markets are a good measuring stick of what is new and new things that did not make it in the real world of boat refrigeration. Sea Frost: A new item added to Sea Frosts refrigeration line is their Tradewinds XP. Sea Frost appears to be the only ice box conversion refrigeration company offering the new thirty percent larger efficient Danfoss BD80 compressor. The BD80 is not only larger than previous models it uses Danfosss Adaptive Energy Optimization (AEO), automatic speed controller. It is odd that none of the other companies offer the AEO feature on their own smaller BD35 and BD50 compressor systems. I had an opportunity to witness the testing of a new line of 12 volt freezers designed to use the BD80 with AEO controller and found it to be a great addition to the Danfoss line of BD compressors. The Tradewinds XP offers more capacity for boats with larger refrigerators or those boats with dual side by side spillover refrigerator freezers. The two XP evaporators are Stainless steel shallow pans about inch thick and should have better freezer box temperature control than holding plates would provide. AvXcel: had a operating 12 volt small icebox conversion unit that uses CO2 as a refrigerant at the Miami show. CO2 a natural substance fulfils most requirements expected from a modern refrigerant: Unlike currently available alternatives like CFC and HCFC Blends. CO2 has a negligible impact on the environment and is inherently safe. CO2 refrigerant is also reported to have superior cooling and improved energy efficiency. Danfoss manufacturer of the most popular boat refrigeration compressors now has a small CO2 compressor for vending machines they says that it is 25% more efficient than other current refrigeration technologies. Glacier Bay: was at the Miami Boat show with their unconventional Micro HPS refrigeration unit. The Micro unit on the outside looks impressive but inside with all of its exposed electronics makes me wonder how it will stand up in a marine environment. It is hard to understand what size of boat this unit is designed for. The Micros cooling capacity and price is excessive for the average pleasure boat, and blue water boats need systems repairable in any port. Frigoboat: has two new refrigeration units for boats this year. A twin Danfoss BD50 compressor condensing unit and a stainless steel cabinet refrigerator for marine use. Frigoboat has become one of the more popular top of the line boat refrigeration manufacturers joining Adler Barbour, Sea Frost, Technautics, Grunert, Norcold and Engel. Frigoboat is gaining popularity over the numer one company Adler Barbour mainly do to Frigoboats automatic compressor speed controls and Keel Cooler condensers.


Hi again Richard. I am still working on this problem and it appears that finding someone to competently flush the system and reinstall with R12 isn't a viable option: too expensive and not a good feeling about capabilities. So. I am going to swap out the unit. Since the evaporator was "fit" to the box, I was hoping to keep it and replace the condenser/compressor. A tech said he could adapt the ends of the lines to match a current unit. To check that, I e-mailed Waeco tech support and received the following reply. My question is whether there is any physical/operational reason not to use the old power plate evaporator or is it just a function of Waeco not wishing to take rsponsibility for modifications? "I have a 10 year old AB unit with a Danfoss 2.5 compressor and a "thin holding plate" evaporator. The evaporator is about 10 X 14 inches off the top of my head and about 1/2 inch thick. There is a cap for the liquid to be added on top. "Anyhow, it is getting tired. So, I am going to replace it. It appears your current CU 100 Cold Machine is a replacement. My tech says he can adapt the holding plate This would be desirable since I have two units and the boxes were designed with that plate in mind. Is there any complication to the newer 134 running in the system with the old holding plate evaporator given a good flush? "Thanks for your time in answering. " Rick Dinon "You need to replace the plate. The tube set is not compatible with the CU-100. The couplings have changed. Also, there would be no warranty if you use the old PowerPlate."


I have a 3/4 " divider between the freezer and fridge on my spillover system. Works great, but if anything the fridge gets too cold when I keep the freezer at amx cold (-17 C) When building the system I put in 2 "spillover" holes towards the bottom, with vents, or doors that can be closed, and also a small hole on top for proper circulation. Just one opening on the bottom would have been enough. No big deal plugging it up however, just have not gotten around too it. THe whole system is used for short term cruising. The longest trip we have done is about 4 weeks in the Bahamas. Shooting for 5 weeks this summer.

Comdensing Unit Replacement
Let the tech flush the plates, then vacuum them with a refrigeration vacuum pump and then connect lines. Now service the system with 134a, do not use 409a. Option 1 I would buy the CU100 from West Marine since they will help with the warranty should you need help. Option 2 It the old BD2.5 cooled the box adequately I would buy WAECO,s Model CU85 condensing unit again from WM and add to it Frigoboats Smart Speed Control (SSC). This will be easier to install, less expensive and more efficient.

water pump
Could you please recommend a low current draw water circulation pump for a 12 volt holding plate system?

Refrigerator Water Pumps
The answer to your question about 12 volt water pumps for refrigeration is; I have no recommendations. Most 12 volt pumps motors have brushes that wear out after 1000 hours of pump operation. Pumps with magnetic drives will not move air out of the water circuit and stop pumping if any solid partial inters pump. Positive displacement pumps have shaft seals that fail. My opinion is that the reliability of a boats refrigerator is compromised if a 12 volt seawater pump is used to circulate the condensers cooling medium. The best advice I can give is: 1. If the refrigerator is a small 12 volt water cooled unit I would want a large fine screen filter ahead of the pump and no low spots in lines to trap air. The through hull for this pump needs a scoop below the hull to help force water in when boat is in motion. The pump for this type system would have a brushless motor like a March pump model 893-09 2. If the refrigerator has a large engine drive compressor I would use the engines cooling raw water pump and not add a second pump. 3. If the refrigerator has a large 12 volt compressor that only runs one to two hours a day then select a positive displacement pump with brushes. If this boat is to be used as a live aboard plan on replacing pump once every 18 months.

Box Shape
Dear Mr. Kollmann, I have a Pearson 35. The ice box and insulation have been removed. I will install 4" or 5" of urethane. I will use the Frigoboat evaporator 340B, 15x11.5x6. Referring to DIY p.73, I can make the shape similar to Bristol 36 with a shelf built-in or similar to the CSY 36 with a sloped back. I would add an open, metal shelf that could promote air flow to the shelf area. Which shape would you favor? I can mount the evaporator either on the end or the front but it must be below the top loading door. How much clearance should be allowed between the bottom of the door and the top of the evaporator on order to have good air flow? Thank you for your help,SKYE

Recommendation??
Good morning- Thank you for you previous advice... and am in the midst of replacing insulation (the existing insulation was found to be of questionable quality, void spaces, and dampness). I'm looking to replace our isotherm 5801 holding plate system with either the Super Cold machine (using water cooling through our fresh water tanks) or the fridgaboat system with keel cooler. I'll be using a spill over system, with a thermostatically controlled fan like you recommend. The boat is a Tayana 37, and the refer/freezer box is as you illustrate in your book. I'm having difficulty in finding an appropriate evaporator that will allow for about at 3.7 cubic foot freezer plus the 3.5 cubic foot refer. The liner is "just" 15" wide, and the flat 'square' bottom (the other side of the freezer slopes upwards with the hull shape) is only 10" x 15", leaving only room for about a 30" 'long evaporator bent into a 'U' shape. Is it reasonable to use 2 flat evaporators... such as a small bin type under the counter area at the top of the freezer and a smaller flat evaporator at the bottom? Your opinion would be greatly appreciated. The boat will be used in the tropics, and the freezer section needs to be able to make ice. Thanks again. Steve Abel

Equipment Selection
If you do not plan on cursing in the tropics then you can get buy with the large 340B size evaporator in freezer with a Danfoss BD50 compressor. The key to a spillover system is in maintaining the temperature difference between the refrigerator area and the freezer. I would recommend that these two areas have a 1 inch divider separating them. I would need a sketch to look at before I could recommend any thing further.

Replacing a Isotherm twin BD35 system
I am having a problem with you replacing a 5801 Magnum twin BD 35 condensing unit with a small single BD50 condensing unit. The material I have on an Isotherm 5801 is that the holding plate is small 15 by 12 5/8 by 3 9/16 which is too small for that size condensing unit. My first choice would be two separate systems. In the freezer, I would install a BD50 condensing unit and a flat plate bent to a U shaped evaporator or two flat plate evaporators like the ones available from Nova Kold. In the refrigerator connected to a BD35 condensing unit a single plate is sufficient or a chamber (bin) evaporator. Both Systems Would need some type of automatic speed control Device. My second choice would be SeaFrost's new BD80 system with their two plates in the freezing section, if plates will fit in freezing area. I do not recommend water cooling small Danfoss condensing units on boats that spend time connected to shore power, or when seawater is too cold or too hot or on boats with onboard generators. All water condensers that employ an electric pump are also unreliable and destroy the slow speed efficiencies of the new generation of variable speed compressors.

Compressor Overload
Sorry for the delay in this followup. I had to go to Guadalajara to get the smallest orifice for the Alco TEV. The orifice, marked "X" was not available in Puerto Vallarta. Then the owner had his boat out, while he surfed and drank warm beer (different priorities than mine). I installed an Alco valve with external equalization because, with the cold plate installed upside down, alot of oil builds up in the line at the exit from the TEV, and, I assume elsewhere, potentially causing an extra pressure drop through the cold plate. With the new TEV set at about 2 1/2 turns open, there appears to no longer be a problem with that valve, and the compressor previously tested out OK. However, I am unable to fully charge (remove the bubbles from the sight glass) without the control module shutting the unit down with the three flashes on the LED, indicating compressor overload. Although the literature says this indicates a pressure differential across the compressor in excess of 5 bar, I presume it really means an excess power draw, since the module cannot measure pressure. Have you ever read what this maximum power/current draw should be to trip the module? This module will trip with no pressure differential at all on start-up if the system is fully charged with refrigerant.